When was North Sydney nicknamed Mounties?

 
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Fintan O'Laighin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject: When was North Sydney nicknamed Mounties? Reply with quote

I can't remember if we've discussed this before, but when was North Sydney nicknamed "Mounties" and where does the name come from? Is it a reference to Mount Street? If so, what's the connection with North Sydney RL? The club was formed at a meeting at the School of Arts in Mount Street, but that link seems a bit tenuous, particularly if the nickname Mounties came after Shoremen.

The side panel on the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sydney_Bears says the club's nicknames were The Shoremen, The Mounties and The Bears, but this is the only reference to the Mounties.

The South Sydney club song references the nickname:

http://membership.rabbitohs.com.au/info/rabbitohs-club-song

They mauled the Balmain Tigers
Slew the Dragons from St. George
The Seagulls and the Mounties next
Were crushed with mighty force
They humbled Parramatta
And the Berries in due course
They wear the RED & GREEN

(REPEAT CHORUS)
They plucked the Western Magpies
Slashed the Newtown bag of blue
The Eastern Suburbs rooster crowed
And then was conquered too
The greatest name in any game
Within South Sydney grew
They wear the RED & GREEN

As there are only nine teams mentioned (besides Souths) - Balmain Tigers, St George Dragons, Seagulls, Mounties, Parramatta, Berries, Western Magpies, Newtown and Eastern Suburbs - it can be narrowed down to between 1947 (when Parra and Manly joined) and 1967 (when Cronulla and Penrith joined). It can be narrowed further to sometime in the 1950s when NS became the Bears after club sponsor "Big Bear Supermarket" in Neutral Bay.

On a separate point, I understand that Northern Suburbs RU are called the Shoremen - did they pinch this name from us?
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northern bear
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to an old boss of mine, who played Rugby for Northern Suburbs, the Shoreman nickname came from them originally forming & playing at a ground that was next to Holterman's Blue St house. It became part of the Shore School.

We may have pinched the expression from them.

It was 1959 when Norths became the Bears when the old tram depot was converted to the Big Bear Supermarket and became a major sponsor.

I lived on the lower North Shore and my grandmother often referred to going shopping up to Mountie, meaning Mount Street. My guess would be the name would have been from the club being formed there.

An old program from the early 50's only refereed to Norths as the Men from across the Bridge, with a diving player forming the arch of the bridge.
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Fintan O'Laighin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that. Wikipedia's page on Northern Suburbs says that "Rugby on the lower North Shore is over 130 years old. Council minutes reveal that the North Shore Football Club played on a paddock adjoining Holterman's Tower, the present location of Shore School." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Suburbs_Rugby_Club. However, the reference to "130 years" is a bit dated - it's included in a TMB post from January 2011 at www.mightybears.com/viewtopic.php?t=4597&sid=ad0f9f8a06ddc5434bd2ca5264795bed. It's therefore at least 135 now (i.e. 1881). Shore school was established in 1889, therefore "Shore" was used by a rugby club before it was used by the school.

This post talks about Sean Fagan's research into the early history of rugby league clubs and their links with the rugby clubs.

Thanks also for the info about "Mountie". Maybe we were the Mounties before being called the Shoremen. I'll have to dig out "TMB". Fagan doesn't say anything about "Mounties" but does say that "The 'Shoremen' name did transfer from the Pirates to Norths." (I think he's talking about the rugby club.)

Re- the reference to the Mounties in the South Sydney club song, I suggested that the references to Manly and Parra dated it post-1947, totally ignoring that the refs to Manly and Parra may have been added to lyrics that dated from 1908.
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northern bear
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your comments led me to find my copy of Catherine Warne's 'Pictorial Memories of the Lower North Shore.'

There is a photo of the staff of the North Sydney Post Office taken in 1900.

The authors comment says 'These men are not members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.' The photo shows the staff with the 12 postmen looking like 'Mounties.'

Even though it is naturally a black and white photo, the tones look like they could be wearing red jackets and black trousers.

Perhaps the Mounties term could have originated here, especially as the PO is on the corner of MOUNT St. and the Lane Cove Rd. - now the Pacific Highway. .

Trivia - 11 of the 12 postmen sport handle bar mo's.
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madunit
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Wiki is wrong. I've heard of Penrith being referred to as Mounties, but never the Bears (I've researched the history of games reasonably thoroughly over the first 20 years. They were only ever referred to as "North" or "The Shoremen" in that time.)
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Fintan O'Laighin
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, but Cronulla isn't mentioned either so I think the lyrics date from when it was a ten team comp. It could be my NS club pride, but I can't think why a fellow foundation club would be left out. Hence, while I've heard Penrith referred to as the "mountain men", I don't think they are the "Mounties" in the song. I'd never heard of NS being called "Mounties" and only thought about it after I went to a Souths game and the song lyrics were posted on the big screen after the game.

Any South Sydney fans know when the lyrics were written, or have evidence of them being around before Cronulla and Penrith joined in 1967?
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cnbhs
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never heard or seen reference to us being referred to in that way.
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Fintan O'Laighin
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cnbhs wrote:
I have never heard or seen reference to us being referred to in that way.

Nor had I, I'll have to get onto my Souths-supporting friends.

northern bear wrote:
Even though it is naturally a black and white photo, the tones look like they could be wearing red jackets and black trousers.

I read a while ago that it's possible to analyse black and white photos to see what colours the shades of grey depict. It was in relation to some architectural style which was revealed to be more colourful than is often imagined.

I did a quick check of photographic sites and they seem to think it isn't possible, but a research paper at www.cs.northwestern.edu/~sco590/ColorRecovery.pdf seems to suggest it can be done:

Sven Olsen et al, ICCP, 2010. Recovering Color from Black and White Photographs - Abstract
This paper present s a mathematical framework for recovering color information from multiple photographic sources.

Such sources could include either black and white negatives or photographic plates. This paper's main technical contribution is the use of Bayesian analysis to calculate the most likely color at any sample point, along with an expected error value. We explore the limits of our approach using hyperspectral datasets, and show that in some cases, it may be possible to recover the bulk of the color information in an image from as few as two black and white sources.
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